5thSAS
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Who Dares Wins
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Post by 5thSAS on Mar 29, 2011 20:36:04 GMT -5
I'm certain this has been covered in here somewhere but, I am looking for any information regarding grenades for reenactments. Is there a standard for max grains of powder, filler type......? I want to make a few grenades for an upcoming event but want them to be correct
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Post by starsandstripes on Mar 29, 2011 20:46:39 GMT -5
From doing ww1 reenactments at newville and having made countless grenades, I would recommend that you use a 30 grain black powder charge wrapped in tin foil with a 3 in "cannon" type fuse with a filler of baking soda encased in either a black painted easter egg or a painted "huggie" juice drink bottle.
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Post by S/Sgt.Noble30thID on Mar 30, 2011 8:24:05 GMT -5
That is the best way I have found. Safe (if used correctly), very inert filler, and they work.
Id let them go off in my helmet if asked, and have let them go off in my hands and between my knees with no problems or ill effects.
Charlie
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Railsplitter
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"You'll be fighting WWII for the rest of your life" My father in 1972
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Post by Railsplitter on Mar 30, 2011 10:29:47 GMT -5
I don't understand why at tacticals grenades even need to do anything except be thrown and land. Most grenades are homemade pyro devices, which drastically increases the "unsafe" factor. As long as both sides agree they don't need to blow up to take a hit, we just removed one of the more unsafe things from the hobby. They are cheaper too, as long as you find them afterwards...since you are so "green" friendly and can be recycled. You also have to not abuse this and throw the same one 10 times in 10 minutes and expect hits.
LTC Tim
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Post by starsandstripes on Mar 30, 2011 10:32:26 GMT -5
That really dosent pertain to the topic at hand. Can we all please stay on topic which is the safe construction of grenades, not ones opinion of grenade safety. Not to sound snippy but this could turn into a grenade pro or con argument and that would not help this guy. Please could everyone keep t commenting only about the original question?
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Railsplitter
Major
"You'll be fighting WWII for the rest of your life" My father in 1972
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Post by Railsplitter on Mar 30, 2011 10:41:52 GMT -5
This isn't anti-grenade, just asking why they even need to blow up at all. I am sure you will get plenty of opinions from different grenade makers.
LTC Tim
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Post by wilhelmrenner on Mar 30, 2011 11:59:37 GMT -5
5thsas: where do you reenact? Different areas have different rules on grenades. For example, the CHG in CA does not allow grenades with any charges whatsoever and call for grenades to be essentially made of rubber.
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Post by Boogiewoogie on Mar 30, 2011 15:38:25 GMT -5
This isn't anti-grenade, just asking why they even need to blow up at all. I am sure you will get plenty of opinions from different grenade makers. LTC Tim We have to use things that don't explode, alot. Colorado is a tinder box. The issue has only been, without the pop, sometimes you don't notice them. That causes fustration and angst among some. That leads to some people having less fun. Martin
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5thSAS
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Post by 5thSAS on Mar 30, 2011 16:36:27 GMT -5
5thsas: where do you reenact? Different areas have different rules on grenades. For example, the CHG in CA does not allow grenades with any charges whatsoever and call for grenades to be essentially made of rubber. East coast. The event in in Pennsylvania.....Ft Mifflin
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Post by wilhelmrenner on Mar 30, 2011 17:31:25 GMT -5
5thsas: where do you reenact? Different areas have different rules on grenades. For example, the CHG in CA does not allow grenades with any charges whatsoever and call for grenades to be essentially made of rubber. East coast. The event in in Pennsylvania.....Ft Mifflin I would suggest asking your unit leadership if black powder charge grenades are acceptable or not. If so, Starsandstripes outlines a good method above that I've also used with some minor differences for WWI events that do allow black powder grenades. * the only differences I've used is to use a plastic bag to encase the powder - either the corner of a cheap sandwich bag or better yet the fingertip of cheap plastic food service worker gloves. Instert the fuse and seal it with masking tape. I also don't add baking powder and use ~20 grains instead of 30. For the egg, I get plain wood decorative eggs, bore out the pointier end about 3/4", insert the charge and tape it in to prevent it from coming out.
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Post by starsandstripes on Mar 30, 2011 19:15:53 GMT -5
The grenades that I outlined are just about as fire safe as they can get plus there is nothing that is part of the whole design that can burn or throw shrapnel. Fire safety and personal safety is always an issue when talking about pyro. We use foil cuz it dosent burn or melt, and the plastic eggs are good to fill with baking soda which puts the fire from the explosion and the fuse out immediately.
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Roosevelt's SS
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Well the Ukraine girls really knock me out, they leave the West behind...
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Post by Roosevelt's SS on Mar 30, 2011 19:16:27 GMT -5
That is the best way I have found. Safe (if used correctly), very inert filler, and they work. Id let them go off in my helmet if asked, and have let them go off in my hands and between my knees with no problems or ill effects. Charlie I've made and have used the "juice jug" grenades and have also had them go off in my hand...usually when I am about to take out an MG42 and then end up taking out my squad instead.
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Post by whatthecrunchyo on Mar 30, 2011 19:34:51 GMT -5
What size easter egg are we talking here?
Where does one get this black powder and fuses?
and lastly,
Can you make these look like Steilhand?
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Post by S/Sgt.Noble30thID on Mar 30, 2011 19:39:12 GMT -5
The larger Easter Eggs that come to the stores before Easter. Wait til after and catch them on closeout.
Black Powder...gun stores, hunting places, reloading supply places, online. You can buy "cannon" fuse anywhere.
Yea, but an egg grenade would be easier.
Charlie
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5thSAS
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Post by 5thSAS on Mar 30, 2011 19:50:03 GMT -5
I'm using Huggie juice containers painted dark green.....pretty close in appearance to a Mills bomb. Got the fuze and FFF powder. With the 30 grain suggestion I have a good place to start. Things have changed a great deal since I made my last grenade 20 years ago.......it's what I get for taking such a long break
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Post by starsandstripes on Mar 30, 2011 21:54:40 GMT -5
My friend and I are able to procure Black Plastic easter eggs any time of year for $40 per 100. We use those as they look similar to ww1 german egg grenades. I have used the huggie bottles only for the grenades that I make with the self contained ignition systems. The ignition system is a completely different topic. But huggie bottles with a 3 -3.5 in fuse work quite nicely and do look a sight more realistic than the eggs altho the eggs are more economical if you are making them en mass. Also I have a buddy who does german and he makes some of the absolute best stick grenade simulators I have ever seen, so those are doable
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Post by dixieflyer on Apr 2, 2011 11:03:49 GMT -5
OK, I know I'll probably get jumped on for this, but I'll wade in anyway. You filler can also be dependent upon the event/event site. Our event site, Mariongrad, frowns upon baking soda due to two eye injuries in the past, and right greatly prefers flour. Yes, yes, yes, I know people will scream "fire danger", but those are the site rules, and those are the ones I have to follow. (BTW, the bottom line is: we've had two injuries due to baking soda, and none due to flour.)
NOW, in a prior conversation with a reenacting friend, who is member of the 1st ID and in PA BTW, he came upon a compromise through experimentation. (And we all know that experimenting with homemade explosives in the backyard is fun, fun, fun!) He has found that a 3:1 ratio of flour to baking soda yields the best of both worlds. There is enough baking soda to eliminate the fire danger, but not so much to get in folk's eyes, etc. Just thought I'd throw that one out there for y'all to experiment with. I know the next grenades I use will most likely be in this configuration.
Warren
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Post by Boogiewoogie on Apr 2, 2011 11:48:41 GMT -5
We put our charges in water balloons, the really small type.
Martin
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Post by gliderridermedic on Apr 2, 2011 12:28:00 GMT -5
Then why not use a non-pyrotechnic charge in the grenade to make the "BOOM". If anyone is interested, I'm happy to engineer a solution to this. I love solving a problem like this.
There is no such thing as an absolutely fire-safe pyro device. If it involves combustion there's a small risk and trust me, if you don't want to be potentially holding the bill for the containment efforts after a brush fire, it's best to find another way to make something go "BOOM" in exceptionally dry areas like what Boogie is talking about.
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Post by Boogiewoogie on Apr 2, 2011 12:41:49 GMT -5
We have some airsoft grenades that pop, but you want to find the working parts. They are not cheap. The area that usually gets filled with BB's can be filled with flour, baking soda etc.
We had one person make them out of surgical tubing, blown up like a balloon, with a piece of fuze on it. It would pop inside a piece of PVC pipe, as a resonating chamber. They worked well in rooms, but were weak outside. You still have some fire involved.
Non bursting grenades work fairly well out of grenade launcher, you just can't get the same energy generated throwing them.
Martin
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