Lowering Authenticity Standard for New Guys

[swampfox6]

All add to the great responses on thepost by simply stating that once you "lower" a standard, it's hell trying to get it back where it should be.

Loaner gear and mentoring - great steps in avoiding the lowering of standards.

[aicusv]

Remember too, that any question or statement that uses the word "cool" should me answered with the word "No". The only sub standard equipment our units permits is the loaner stuff. Guys will donate items to the box once they realize its junk. We go through and select the better junk (but still junk) and use it as a loaner. This reduces the amount of stuff not returned and pushes they new guy to get up to par (sorry for the golf reference). We also have a couple of real shoppers in the unit, these guys will usually find the equipment and uniforms for a new guy. Generally they maintain a limited stock of good pieces so they can get it to a new member as soon as he needs it. (all out off 50+ waste original trousers at present)

[Cassino]

Jul 31, 2009 8:53:51 GMT -5 Mayo said:

We tell all new folks we have acceptable loaner gear including helmets, uniforms, field equipment, and rifles. They need to buy their own shoes/boots as these are harder to fit loaners out to and not in abundant supply. Our Commanding Officer reburbs helmets and liners for the purpose of selling them to our new guys for no profit and even sometimes at a loss. We also tell the new guys not to buy anything without running it by and NCO in our unit, or our authenticity officer.

That's one of the nice things about larger units, there are more resources available to help outfit the new guys. I know for a while there we were seeing 3-4 new guys an event, and fortunately we are always able to accomodate them.

[sgtsaunders]

What do you do with a new guy, who wears glasses, and doesn't have period frames + lenses, yet? Do you let him come to events or make him wait until he gets the proper frames?

[glen]

I've had a few folks point the way for me,gave me address's on were I can find things for my gear.But it was mostly me ,doing some looking around on the web,doing my research on the combat field medic during WWII,in the E.TO. mid 1943-1945.I think if a newbee needs a little help on finding his gear, the vet's of the unit should help the newbee out untill the newbee can get his gear together by him self.-Doc Jones

[35divmp]

Aug 3, 2009 15:23:06 GMT -5 sgtsaunders said:

What do you do with a new guy, who wears glasses, and doesn't have period frames + lenses, yet? Do you let him come to events or make him wait until he gets the proper frames?

I guess it all depends on:

1. How "hard-core" you or your unit is...

2. How "off-period" the new guys' glasses are...

3. How expensive the new glasses will be and if the guy can fill them in the "style" the unit wants...

4. And how far you want to go before the new guy isn't in your unit anymore.

Jay

[sgtsaunders]

And how far you want to go before the new guy isn't in your unit anymore


That is an element of "lowering authenticity standards" for new guys. Units have to deal with the stress of loosing someone who can't meet the standards for one reason or another.

[echo5levi]

The understanding I have of how my unit operates is, we want the people 1st and foremost. When they come in, the unit helps get them up to speed. There are tons of hobbys and activities that are more immeadiate and accessable than living history, and we are competing against them for new members, especially young people. I myself am a father/husband, surfer, play in a rock band and a Marine Reservist. I do living history because I love it, and my unit is great to work with. If they told me to pound sand because my laces weren't crossed right, I'd say "roger that" and hoped they have fun with their period-correct underwear, and probably disregard WWII LH as the live-action role player geeks that we all pretty much are. Luckily most I've met are great people with a passion for history. Authenticity is paramount. We gotta get it right. But this is a hobby where "more the merrier" is a virtue. I hope all units are as accomidating as mine.

[sgtsaunders]

I guess it boils down to what sort of things are being suspended.

What are the areas where you cut new guys slack, and for how long. And what areas is there no suspending of standards.

[privypiper2002]

What I have seen is goals for time in service. Something like wools first, then kit, then glasses etc.

It makes for a positive progression.

[chucklynch]

As far as glasses, contacts may be a cheap replacement and are nearly impossible to notice (or laser surgery if you'd rather spend the money for a longer lasting fix). Although, I fully understand how lack of funds can really put a pinch on developing an outstandingly accurate impression, and you may want to hold off attending events until you can period correct glasses or otherwise. Again, the decisions are up to the individual and his or her unit.

[echo5levi]

Aug 4, 2009 17:12:01 GMT -5 sgtsaunders said:

I guess it boils down to what sort of things are being suspended.

What are the areas where you cut new guys slack, and for how long. And what areas is there no suspending of standards.

Right, and not to mention what kind of event. Public Living History events should be as on the money accurate as possible. I can see alittle more leeway at reenactor-only tacticals. But the more authentic it looks, the more authentic it feels and I think it promotes a better atmosphere for everybody.

[twhigham]

We generally cut a new guy slack on the following:

1) tentage. We know a complete repro pup will run about $100 and take a week to arrive, whereas a snap-together pup can be had for about $30 at most surplus stores. A lot of new guys show up with the snapper because that was all they had available or could afford. Our compromise: we won't let him set up his RON until the public disperses, to preserve display integrity. After he's gotten the button-up model, he can still use the snapper later when we do 'Nam displays.

2) bags. WW2 bags are cheap, and so are blankets, but when a new guy goes to the surplus store, he's probably only going to find the polyfill models. Same as with tentage, it stays hidden or covered until the public disperses. Or, in my case where there's a reaction to old wool, keep it covered in the poplin case.

3) helmets. WW2 helmets will run about $250, complete. 'Nam helmets can be had for less than that (Israeli models even less), and from a distance look almost the same. Since the only time helmets are generally worn are during the public battle, we tell our guys to just keep theirs liner-down on a crate, to hide the X-suspension of the liner and the incorrect silhouette. Then, as they go along, they can replace the parts.

4) someone mentioned glasses. This is a safety issue. Don't expect to battle in front of the public if you can't look the part. If you need glasses to see, at least take them off for photos or take a hit as soon as you push forward at the start of the battle. For tacticals, safety first, authenticity second.

5) food. Some guys eat at Hooter's; others eat out of their pockets.

[sgtsaunders]

Tactical Battle Reenactors, have higher standards on helmets, going for fixed bale/front seam Helmets. Which if your willing to do a little work can be done for $70. Even Airborne Helmets, our unit refirbs helmets for our new recruits. Next is the liners, no need yet to go with wrong period liners.

But in a pinch we would let some use a swivel bale front seam helmet, if he already has one, but there is no need for a new guy to go out and buy the wrong helmet from the start.


On Food. Tactical Battle Reenactors live in the field so it's period rations or food that would have been available in the region.

The Bottomline there is what is correct and preferred, that which is not-correct by allowed, and that which is not-correct and not allowed. What is bad is when people start accepting things as being allowed and then over time, they become assumed to be correct by those who use the unit only for their research.

This goes for facial hair and glasses, people get lazy, let their guard down, and standards go out the window.

[tentha86]

Good Grief Charlie Brown!

Echo's unit & TW have the right idea, and reasonable is something we all should consider. If you wanted to have a squad that was "less than perfect", that might make sense, but to turn away someone who is making an effort to get it right because he has a front-seam or rear-seam helmet is an insult to the hobby. I'd bet not one of the gung-ho underwear checkers sprang full formed (and outfitted) between the typical GI age of 18 to 22, so let's be reasonable with the new guys.

Raise the bar as they spend time with the unit, but don't start out with the bar so high a newbie can't reach it...

[Cassino]

OK the last two posts have me scratching my head...what is wrong with a front seam helmet? Is it something incorrect for your particular unit's impression?

The rear seam helmets are the ones that are late war/post war. Front seams were made up to late 1944.

I think you have to make some concessions with new guys. My unit requires that new guys have their boots, a period hair cut and no facial hair (with exception for certain scenarios). We have a good stock of loaner gear to outfit them with. If they find they don't like the hobby, they are not out a bunch of money and they can more than likely find a buyer for the boots.

[sgtsaunders]

Welpe, that was typo on the front vs rear.

The point is, if correct stuff is available, there is no need to lower the standard, until it is no longer available.

But we should agree what is the standard everyone should be shooting for. And if you allow new guys not to follow them, "for what ever reason" you are lowering the standards.

And finally the standards or the setting of the bar..... we didn't set it....history did

[tentha86]

When reenacting WWII got started, the standard was "the 10' rule" - if you couldn't tell it't not original from 10' away, it was accurate enough to use. A few items were banned, but the vast majority of us wore original gear we bought ib the surplus store. Nobody checked our underwear - or where the seam was on our helmet. If my canteen had a WWII date, that was great, but it wasn't required for a D-Day display.

I applaud authenticity at the 100% level, but does the public appreciate it? Most don't know a M-1 from a Mosin Nagant, but getting it "right" at the underwear level is like wetting your pants in a rainstorm - it may give you a warm feeling, but nobody notices but you and whomever you tell! I've done exhibits for National Archives, Army Museums and other National level museums, and nobody has ever checked my helmet liner, much less the label on my socks.

If we want to get it right on that level, limit the age to 25 & under, less than 10% body fat and a high school education. Then see who's left in the hobby! If we compromise on age, let's allow reasonable look-alikes and time to get the details right...

[dogcomedic]

Aug 3, 2009 15:23:06 GMT -5 sgtsaunders said:

What do you do with a new guy, who wears glasses, and doesn't have period frames + lenses, yet? Do you let him come to events or make him wait until he gets the proper frames?

We let him come to the event. If the glasses are even remotely period, he wears them. Many of our members are young unemployed or students. In this economy, every dollar counts when trying to get by and if you have a pair of serviceable glasses that is what counts. HOWEVER, we do draw the line at rhinestones, megadeath, Harley Davidson, fuchia, red, white, blue or other colors other than metal or black.

It is also a safety issue. Rather than have a guy hide his glasses in order to pass S&A because he'll get gigged over it and then be a hazard on the field, he will wear them so that I or anyone else isn't a victim of lack of eyesight. Contacts are a bad idea. Dirt, debris, etc can make you not only a danger, but you can also lose your own eyesight. I know, I worked in the optical industry for a manufacturer of contacts and the pictures you see can cause sleepless nights.

If, when the time comes to change glasses, if you can find anything close to period looking eyewear that is also suitable for regular wear, you should get them.

100% authenticity is to be strived for no matter what. But, reality may put a damper on this for the new guy. You have to be patient. I wish I had a million bucks like many here who go all out, but I don't so I also build slowly, and I've been doing this a long time with a very specialized impression. Dave L, you're absolutely right.

Doc Phil

[echo5levi]

I wonder if GI's ever knew thier helmets had front seams or rear seams. It wasn't until I got involved in this hobby and through research of military gear did I learn that the utiliy uniform I wore for years was designated M-81. The Drill Instructors told me they were cammies, so, they were cammies. Until 2004, then they were "didgies".
Just a thought.