Lowering Authenticity Standard for New Guys

[kilroy]

Do you ever lower standards for new guys. While new guys can get by with not having to have their complete kit; do any of your units, relax other things for new guys, i.e. clothing, helmets, rifles, etc.

[Boogiewoogie]

Any unit worth a salt has some type of loaner gear. We try to guide newer members, into the things that we don't have. If they get something for a good price, then we encourage that also. We never encourage buying 2nd rate stuff. It is a waste of money.

Martin

[chucklynch]

Save up and buy the right stuff. Like Martin said, any great group should be able to help out the new guys, not do them harm by allowing them to embarrass themselves with incorrect gear. Little things to big things can make a group good instead of great, and I always like to see those great groups.

[Chris P.]

We tell our new guys to buy the good stuff the first time. If they buy inferior gear that is not up to our standards and doesn't pass our authenticity inspection, they can't use it. We believe that anything worth doing is worth doing right.

[unteroffizier38]

Most of our guys also have SOME loaner gear, and we try to steer new guys towards quality and accurate stuff. That being said, however, we usually allow a little time for new guys to get everything together, finances being what they are.

[prgeyer]

Any unit that advises recruits to buy inferior items to "save money" in the startup phase of their impression is not doing that recruit any favors. Any unit worth joining will have decent loaner gear, as long as a time limit is set for the recruit to purchase his own stuff.

High quality stuff is not always more expensive than crap stuff. However, having to buy crap stuff and then quality stuff later is always more expensive than getting the quality stuff in the first place.

[mischief137]

I knew this would be a good thread to watch. But I think he needs to know what "2nd rate" stuff is. With some of the chinese stuff coming out that is as good as the higher quality gear but at half the price and it seems some of the venders are picking up the same where is the line drawn?

[greaser]

You really have to individually list each item and what vendors and manufacturers are acceptable.

Cant simply lump all chinese products into the "junk" bin. Similarly, cant lump all european products into the "Good" bin. Even within a single manufacturer/distributor such as Sturm - there are very good quality items as well as utter trash.

I give my new guys a spreadsheet with the items needed for each phase/step, with a list of reccomended suppliers for each specific item as well as what I feel the current "fair" price to be.

It can take a considerable amount of time and asking to try and keep ontop of the repro market and who's selling who's products.

Chris-

[dvt]

Prices always go up. We get many that come to us with equipment already. We then loan or help them build up their impressions. We normally meet with a guy to see his stuff before he joins. We also have a period of time in which we work to get him from the minimum (M1 helmet and liner, paratrooper suit, jump boots) to the as completely dead on impression his physical characteristics will allow (M1C helmet and liner, depending on the event either mandatory or prefferably un-reenforced jump uniform, jump boots, correct type knife, correct type weapon for rank, propper patches, OS cap, etc.). We also accept troopers that can not carry a weapon based on the society's insurance. They must have correct impressions for a medic, ammo bearer w/ "lost in the jump" weapon, or radio man with "weapon lost in the jump". This allows us to put a year or so into their assimilation into the unit and training in drill etc. with an all wood "weapon" during the training days etc.

[Buggnkat]

I agree with Chris. We did the exact thing when I was the 1st SGT for the 506th unit in St Louis. If you give them an UPDATED list of good quality suppliers, then they do not waste money on gear. That saves them money in the long run and outfits them bits at a time.

Something someone mentioned is not all gear from anyone one supplier is good always, that is why it is importanct to keep that list updated. When a supplier's gear starts slipping, then it is replaced with a supplier whose gear is good to go.

Keep the loaner gear simple. Pistol belts, canteen, suspenders and a helmet for field gear is usually good enough to get them out and let them see what all is involved and whether or not they want to take the hobby on and spend the bucks.

We also tried to team a new guy up with a more experienced reenactor as a mento to help guide the person through the maze of questions and concerns. Plus that gave them someone to bounce a new idea from.

Lower the standard just causes the new guy to take flak for something he didnt know he was doing wrong and possibly losing him because of that. Sometimes reenactors aint the best at being tactful.

Greg

[Boogiewoogie]

I personally consider any swivel bale helmet, 2nd rate. We just had a young man buy a refurb swivel from At The Front. I asked him, why didn't you save and get the fixed bale? It would have been a better deal for impressions that we do.

There are draw backs, to almost all repros, that I have looked at. I believe there are modern reasons for some of it. It takes a little bit of knowledge to seperate the junk from what is within reason. That is not something gained over night. It would take alot more space than is on a page of this forum. It would also change quite often as repros change frequently.

As in my first statement, it is dependent on the unit. We do a variety of impressions, so our list is different than others that may do only one.

Martin

[chucklynch]

The easiest way to assist the newer members is to have a strong "veteran" group. Of course I am including real war veterans, but the "old salts" of any association need to be completely willing to help out the new members, whether young or old, in setting up a proper impression. Obviously this can take a lot of time and money, but as stated before, "anything worth doing is worth doing right." I'm quite pleased with the willingness and knowledge of all the group leaders that I have had the opportunity to speak with, and I only hope that the camaraderie and helpfulness continues in this hobby for many years to come.

[dropkicktino]

Have plastic tubs full of stuff I bought because it was cheap and looked like World War 2 stuff. Can't get rid of the stuff now. Best advice, do it right the first time. I'm sure between all the member's in your group you can come up with a loaner set. Or have the group buy a sturm kit, good solution till they can get their gear together.

[pumpkin2up]

I always set goals for new members. First off would be to get top quality ammo boots with proper hobnails. Let's face it, in this hobby most of us walk. If your boots are crap or don't fit comfortly... life is just not worth living. along with that are good socks. (I hate white cotton tube socks, they really ruin an event for me)

After that, it is on to the BD and GS cap. I always direct them to the top quality stuff or originals only. After that, it's the other bits of uniform they will need.

During this time, we have loaner helmets, webbing, mess tins and even weapons. (The durable, one size fits God knows stuff) A small pack will fit anyone. It is much harder to stock a full size range of Ammo boots.

One thing that I will NEVER allow, shoddy uniforms and boots! We have standards for a reason. It is the job of the new recruit to rise to our level not ours to sink down. Besides, the look of pride in the new guy's face as he steps out in his bulled up boots and tailored BD and falls in with the rest of us. That lad can be justifiably proud of his accomplishments.

cheers,
Stephen

Words to live by... "While some Repros are very good, Repros are fake and Real is always better than fake."

I have always followed the way of... that you can really only "re-live" history by destroying it in the process. Then again, some people think I'm a prat... They might be right.

[tentha86]

I think we've talked about raising the bar for the older members in a group before. Can anybody find that thread?

[137e R.I.]

I would be more worried about the lowering of credibility rather than authenticity among re-enactors, old and new. Why is it that it's more important that what newbies are wearing is correct, but not testing their general knowledge of the era their representing?

Perhaps one of the reasons I do not have a unit is because I would be much more inclined to test someone's knowledge of the topic at hand before letting him anywhere near me as a fellow member. Everyone wants quality over quantity, at least I do, but I'm picking their brains first before allowing them to wear a uniform.

[Boogiewoogie]

I have found it frustrating to work with some, that don't have the same knowledge, that I do on certain subjects. Now, with that said, I have learned over time, that everyone's interest in a particuliar area, may not be the same as mine. They may not know what I do, but many times, they have learned somethings that I don't know, or don't have alot of interest in. They share that information, and I become ahead.

Impressions are always a work of continuing progress. If you think that you are done, well there is always room to get better. You can do that individualy, but a group improvement is often difficult. We all started getting camo's to wear during the summer. We have 2nd Armored vehicles showing up at displays. They have no troops in them or associated with them. It has been a 2 year process, but we have gotten people into them. Enough people doing things and others don't want to feel left out. Peer pressure has been applied also.

I had a very wise person in the National Park Service teach me, people want to be led into the unfamiliar, as a whole. They feel more comfortable with that safety. Think about that one.

The other issue that you must deal with in reenacting is, you gotta also sell your unit as a worthwhile investment. What you do, may not be cool, in the world of reenacting. It may also look very expensive. Building your unit is a juggle of trying to be the "cool" place without the undocumented "cool" that messes it up. That is one that I get fustrated with.

I guess all in all, I had another member point out, we try to recreate a military unit, those were not made up of one person. So are we really recreating anything by ourselves or everyone being an "individual"?

Martin

[137e R.I.]

Boogie,

Those are very valid points and you state them well. I suppose what I'm trying to reach at, is that there seems to be various levels of standards among groups/units of re-enacting in any particular era being represented. I'm curious to know if a certain "minimum standard" can be reached, and whether or not that level can be agreed upon?

-yann

[Mayo]

We tell all new folks we have acceptable loaner gear including helmets, uniforms, field equipment, and rifles. They need to buy their own shoes/boots as these are harder to fit loaners out to and not in abundant supply. Our Commanding Officer reburbs helmets and liners for the purpose of selling them to our new guys for no profit and even sometimes at a loss. We also tell the new guys not to buy anything without running it by and NCO in our unit, or our authenticity officer.

[Boogiewoogie]

I think so, if that is what you set out to do.

I will go back to the 80's and Civil War reenacting. We would go to events in the Missouri area. There was a group called the Union Rifles. Some older may know of them. They would go "authentic" and sleep only with blankets. We would have our A frames, but without the coolers and cots, and think we were pretty cool. We referred to the Union Rifles as the Union Tentless.

I moved into that realm during the later part of the 90's. It kind of sucks when it rains for over 50 percent of an event. The Union Rifles were doing this, when no one else seemed to. They wanted to reach that part of the experience, so they were small, but doing what they wanted.

There was also a New York unit in Arizona at this time. They would be at battles in New Mexico. Yeah, I know, but they would kind of build a closed encampment, building a world of thier own.

I think it can be done. You stated though, your gonna get quality over quanity. I like to think my group works towards that end.

Martin