3rd Marine Defense Battalion Battalion

[seabeepo3]

Howdy, folks. These photos were taken last year in July at a local timeline public event here in Southern California. We decided to portray a typical Marine machine gun nest set up for AA defense in Bougainville. We dug in our pit and set-up our Water-Cooled 1917 on a hill to get the best view. We were pretty minimal besides that, save for a couple of souvenirs we picked up along the way.

I opted to paint a sign for the visitors since we were so barebones and kind of "living in the moment." We weren't sure if they knew what they'd be looking at! We posted printouts of the actions of the 3rd Marine Defense Batt. and maps of Bougainville.
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Profile shot of our set-up:
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The gun pit. We actually spent a day filling in sandbags with sand. No sawdust for us!
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Group shot for Life Magazine
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Close-up of the tripod and the brass we filled in to the pit.
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Downtime.
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Souvenirs on display.
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Shelby, the war dog.
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Playing dice for cigarettes.
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Spotting planes.
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Gun and gunner.
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We didn't have a lot of flash or a whole to display. But, neither did the guys we were portraying. We were kind of off the beaten path at this event, but some folks made it to us and we actually had gotten some praise from Marine veterans, which is always encouraging.

[chucka-chucka]

Looks awesome! Sometimes less is more, especially with this kind of impression. Well executed.

[seabeepo3]

Thank you, 2Chucka. It was a fun set-up as we actually filled sand in the sand bags and dug in. We would've gone deeper except the museum curator told us to stop because we were too deep as it was. We had planned to clean up the sides and make it so it would be easy to traverse the gun without having to crouch.

[1marinediv]

Looks good, well done.

[MARNEPUPPY]

Whats up with the AA extension for the tripod? I've never seen a "thick" original one like that, only the repros from Ordnance Research. Is it an original or repro? Any research as to the "thick" style in use?

I like that the 1917a1 is a bronze trunion gun, a WW1 gun rebuilt to 1917a1 configuration in WW2. Is it a semi or auto? The rivet over the saddle on the bottom plate throws me, as it should be flat.

[seabeepo3]

It's not mine and I hadn't quite done the research, so I'll try and answer from memory. It's semi-auto. The tripod and cradle is original, the AA post is not. However, if I know the gun owner, he really did his research to try and make it right if it's possible and probably found the closest match he could get. I know he had extreme difficulty trying to find an original one. I don't know if he bought this one from Ordnance Research or not.

As for the rivet on the bottom plate, I am not sure which part you're looking at. This is a kit gun and he had parts either reworked or manufactured for it. I don't recall there being anything wrong for the bottom plate. I know that he took the sides, top and bottom plates in to gunsmiths to have the worked to be appropriate for 1917. Took a little over a year to build. In fact, the smith he used went as far to have stamped the side plate with the proper numbers for WWI and then stamped those out to redesignate it for WWII. So, if he couldn't get it done right, it probably wasn't available to be done at all, short of actually buying a true 1917A1.

[tk7263]

You guys look outstanding!Good job. Better not get caught rollin'them bones while your manning your post.

[MARNEPUPPY]

Understood on the difficulty of locating an original AA Extension - thus my question. If the "thick" style were actually used, that'd put the Ordnance Research extension within useable grounds.

One rivet on each side was to be ground flush - the 4th from the front. This was to be a mounting clearance relating to different T&E's. Its a small detail, I might have mistaken it, but it appeared not to have been ground flush. Unless the top plate was replaced during arsenal rebuild, the top plate rivets should also be ground flush if its representing a straight 1917 build that was upgraded. The front rivet is flush, but the rear rivet is domed.

WW1 "rebuilds" were not typically re serial numbered. Nomenclature may have been X'ed out if the gun happened to have been recycled from an aircraft or tank sideplate. The 1917's that got the new bottom plate, sights and other upgrades had the A1 and additional inspection stamps added.

Some absolute nonsense went on with regards to rebuilds of WW1 leftovers in the prewar and early WW2 years. Watercooled 1917's broken down to be rebuilt into 1919a4's, with the waterjackets saved, later to be used on new RIA builds or 1919a2 tank guns or 1917 aircraft guns being built into 1917a1's. Thrift ruled the day.

I'm glad to see the wood ammo box and M1 cans in use - with no M1A1 cans.

The teardrop topcover pin is a nice little touch, but i havent seen many of those in use on any 1917a1 wartime photos that I can recall.

Something else your friend might want to look into, or research further is if the unit you represent painted their 1917/A1's, as that was a fairly common practice, especially with the bronze trunion/endcap guns.

There's a wealth of information being shared over on 1919a4.com and m1919tech, if your friend isnt alredy there, i highly recommend it. Theres some good info that is being presented that isnt in Dolf Goldsmith's books.

[mit31]

It's mine. Yeah, the real AA extensions are a real bear to find; I've only seen one for sale in the last year or two. I'm making due with the Ordnance Research one in the mean time.

I had this browning built, and when it came back that rivet had not been ground. At the moment I dont have a way to repark that area if I grind it myself.

Markings are correct, the SN was not changed, rather an A1 was stamped after the "orig" M1917 markings, and all the proper inspection stuff is there. Sideplates were from T&S, and actually have the 1917 dovetails.

I like using the early topcover pins (feed lever and hinge pin) because most builders dont know they exist, and it is reasonable to assume that on a wc rebuild those parts would be re-used and/or around at the time of refurb.

I've seen a fair amount of pics with end caps both painted and unpainted; I've thought about it but not taken a stance yet on if I want to. At the very least, the fact that I dont shine them sets this gun apart from a lot of new builds I see.

If I had the money I'd get a wc .50cal, and just do navy/marine AA living history at public events.

[MARNEPUPPY]

Props on going the route you did with the T&S plate. Sam does a really nice job. Did you manage to find a RIA-MP bottom plate? Start with a virgin LSP? Jacket from Lou or original? Mad props if its original.

Cool on all the little things. That topcover setup can be a fingerbanger if youre not careful or an octopus.

Watercooleds can be a money pit.

I'm still in the air on the paint thing. If I can narrow the research down more, i'm all on it as it mad progressive.

Somebody needs to come out with a repro of the thin style AA extension.

Its great to see WC's in use with reenactors. Way under represented.

[seabeepo3]

We actually dug that thing in for a tactical event last November. I think we displaced it three times (no water in the jacket) and it's quite the hog. As many reenactors do more tacticals than displays, coupled with the pricing and the difficulty finding things, I can see why we don't see as many of them out there. Mit31 put in a lot of research in to getting accurate or most probable things to make that gun. It looks amazing and is definitely a conversation piece. I think the best compliment came from a Marine vet at one display who had been in WWII and Korea and lugged a WC. You could see him just beaming looking at Mit31's 1917, which many folks don't display.

[sgttom]

I am not a marine expert but you guys look great. I can see why you'd get compliments from the guys who were actually there.

[seabeepo3]

Thanks, Tom! I appreciate the compliment.

[sgttom]

Yea I wish more public events let you dig in, it really adds to the realism. I guess I can understand why they don't want their properties dug up though.