sgtsaunders
1st Lieutenant 
take the point!
Posts: 1,351
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Post by sgtsaunders on Feb 27, 2008 17:08:58 GMT -5
How do other units around the country handle loaner gear, in relation to people who want to come to events but really have no intention of completing their impression let alone ever getting a rifle. This could be intentional or unintentional in the case of money and time to complete their impression.
What is your loaner gear policy
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scottermac
Sergeant 
Reenacting since 1998, Playing War since 1977
Posts: 227
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Post by scottermac on Feb 27, 2008 17:34:14 GMT -5
If its a persons first event, I'll provide the person with loaner gear. If its been several events and the person makes little or no attempt to complete their impression then I would probably stop loaning them gear.
As far as weapons go, I would loan a person a rifle for a couple of events. After that I would let them know that there would a rental fee to cover cleaning, ect....
Scott
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Post by mjerickson on Feb 27, 2008 17:35:53 GMT -5
I would say we have 20 infantry men in our unit, in the event that a new recruit shows interest in our unit between us we are able to provide just about any an all equipment they will need for a weekend event. For the most part we bring it to the event for them to use and we bring it home with us. especially weapons or orginal helmets ect. in the event the individual chooses not to continue in the hobby. If an individual seems to be a good fit with our impression and gets along well with the other guys he is invited to join our unit. Knowing full well the expense and effort required to make Reenacting their hobby. Our by-laws list required equipment to be aquired within the first year. (weapon, field gear, wools, boots, helmet ect) Secondary items come later Class A's, Khakis, ect. after 2 years or so I think. I have to say that each and every new member we have inducted in the last 2 years has had their basic setup within a few events. We all still beg and barrow knowing this guy or that has this or that. As a matter of fact an an up coming event Im going to portray a Signal Corps combat photographer and need to barrow a few items here and there. Just to avoid conflict and hostility I would offer up loaner gear for the weekend only with the understanding that it is returned in its current condition. Set a time frame for new members to have basic gear and keep communication lines open amoung members.
My thoughts
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Post by mjerickson on Feb 27, 2008 17:38:14 GMT -5
my toughts regarding the loaning of weapons, I would expect it returned cleaned if they are unfamiliar with the workings of an M-1 ect walk them through it.
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sgtsaunders
1st Lieutenant
take the point!
Posts: 1,351
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Post by sgtsaunders on Feb 27, 2008 19:53:45 GMT -5
Now there is correlation between age and the need for loaner gear. Normally guys with jobs can buy the gear they need. But guys who are 15 to 21, living at home tend to be more dependant on loaner gear. And in the case of guys who are 15 to 17 they sometimes need to bring Dad along as a chaperone which means you need to outfit the son and the father, not to mention whether they need a rifle or not.
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Post by mjerickson on Feb 28, 2008 5:24:36 GMT -5
I do not mean to cast aspursions and those new recruits please do not take offense to this, but reenacting is an expensive hobby, the initial expense can be daunting, however the end result is gaining a unit member that is committed to the hobby and that particular impression. I do not mean any unit should turn away a potentially good recruit for any reason, but lets face it ulitmately we all need to "Pay to Play".
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HQ327
1st Lieutenant
Posts: 1,336
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Post by HQ327 on Feb 28, 2008 12:00:15 GMT -5
Our unit has a one-year time limit to acquire all required gear. As a general rule for weapons, when you get it handed to you it is clean, when you turn it back it should be clean. (For me -- just give me the rifle back, I'll clean it. Cleaning a weapon is therapeutic!)
After six months it becomes apparent if the recruit is serious. We also have a three-event rule before we vote a recruit in. For those events we expect the loaner gear to be used, however so far all recruits have gotten uniformed (at least trousers, tunic, headgear) by their third event.
Jeff
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dvt
1st Sgt. 
Posts: 634
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Post by dvt on Feb 28, 2008 15:23:31 GMT -5
In our unit leadership we have several sets of loaner gear. It is our left over/ old stuff that has generally been replaced. We have a set time frame of progression from 0 to 100% gear spelled out in the unit handbook. I'm at work so I don't have it in front of me. We will generally set up a newbie with a post war helmet (repainted of course), possibly a jacket and/or pants for a secondary impression event, rarely boots (sizes are an issue), typically web gear, normally a weapon from someone that has switched primary weapons. The ammo is the newbie's responsibility. We will tell him who to buy from for that weapon or sell him some of ours to make sure it works. If there is something event specific (gloves for a cold event etc.) we have that in storage. Most of us have replaced almost everything in our impressions. I am typical of our leadership and I have been at this since 2000 so we all have all of several impressions.
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Post by chrism106 on Feb 28, 2008 15:49:27 GMT -5
I regularly loan out gear at events. It's my own personal gear and not "unit property", but I suspect that's the case with 95+% of the loaner gear out there. I can field four complete impressions and darn near a fifth. I didn't buy the stuff to sit on a shelf and can only wear one at an event, so I have no problems loaning the stuff out. I'd rather it get used. Short of catching themselves on fire, nothing's going to happen to it that wouldn't happen if I wore it.
I have a few friends that I regularly invite out to tacticals. They're "serious" about reenacting, but have made it clear from the beginning that they can't financially swing buying their own kit in the foreseeable future. I have no problem with that. I'd rather have them come out and enjoy themselves. They round out the squads and generally make the event better. They pay their own way, pay for the blanks and chip in on driving and gas, so its not a one-way arrangement. I have plenty of reenacting friends who feel the same way and regularly loan out their own gear with no expectations of any commitment. That's one of the things that makes reenacting great.
In my humble opinion, if a member is in good standing and paid up on their dues, why should the unit care where he gets his gear from (beyond authenticity)? If someone else is willing to cover them with correct gear, so what? As for unit-owned loaner gear, I'd recommend priority for it goes to new members attending their first event, then to paid-up members with the least seniority. Somebody stays in long enough, they eventually drop off the list for unit loaner equipment anyways.
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sgtsaunders
1st Lieutenant
take the point!
Posts: 1,351
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Post by sgtsaunders on Feb 29, 2008 16:33:06 GMT -5
Chrism makes a good point, loaner gear is first come first serve, regardless of what rules a unit may or may not have. If an individual doesn't have the gear, he is at the mercy of "those who can lend". The point being that newbie's who don't get their gear can't expected to always be outfitted, specially when someone newer comes into the unit. Loaner Gear should go to the newest people first. Also depending on Loaner Gear is risky, and causes people to go through the process of begging for one piece at a time, from one guy after another.
The other issue I've seen, is kids who have to bring their Dad's due to their age, which then requires two people to be outfitted for the one recruit.
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Post by 103rdinfantry on Mar 2, 2008 0:09:03 GMT -5
First off if you borrow a weapon you clean it is unit policy.
As far as loaner gear/ weapons most of the senior guys have extra stuff to loan out. It is a case by case basis on how long we "carry a guy" Age is definitely a factor and the younger guys get more time to buy rifles. On the other hand with uniforms younger guys can USUALLY fit in the smaller original stuff so they can at least get a wool GI uniform for little money. Boots and web gear are cheaper now and are expected to get a basic setup when then are committed to joining. Usually we end up selling them extra stuff from our collections at cost or less so they get some great deals. There is also vendors we are close with out there that give good deals to newbies.
1 year is a good general rule to have your basic kit and at least have money set aside to start thinking about getting a rifle. Priority for loaner gear/rifles is given to those newly joined so guys in for a while don't get too comfortable borrowing gear.
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Danger Forward
Private First Class 
The US Army consisted of the 1st Division and 1 million replacements
Posts: 47
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Post by Danger Forward on Mar 2, 2008 14:42:55 GMT -5
Our loaner policy is that you can borrow gear for as long as you want, but it goes to the new guys first, and is available on a first come, first serve basis.
I have three complete sets of web gear, two paratrooper and an infantry set. They are free to be used for as long as possible, provided they are returned before the end of each day and are in the same condition they were when you were given them. The same people can use them repeatedly, for as long as they wish, until another newbie shows up. Then the two newest have their pick, and anything left over goes to the next, ect. ect.
But honestly, anybody that wants to stay in the hobby usually has a full set within two or three events anyway.
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Post by mjerickson on Mar 2, 2008 15:28:36 GMT -5
many of our new guys are looking for bits and pices all the time, Mess kits, leggings, canteens ect. We have a an unwritten rule that if you pick something up with the intent of selling to another unit member it goes for what you paid for it. We all get togeather enough to pretty much know what everyone is looking for.
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Railsplitter
Major 
"You'll be fighting WWII for the rest of your life" My father in 1972
Posts: 3,189
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Post by Railsplitter on Mar 4, 2008 16:12:21 GMT -5
I have really only had one guy borrow gear and then not get his own. I finally asked him to turn it back over and we havent seen him since.
I generally dont do a semi-perm. loan like I did above, but this was a special case. I generally loan per event and take it back. I think feeling the anxiety of borrowing gear, not knowing if it will show or be avaliable each time can motivate good reenactors to get their stuff together. Most tend to pull it together way quicker than they ever anticipate, and dont need loaner gear for very long.
Our big military academy group has been another story, with putting 25 guys in the field in a year. Over the past year, they have built up their own loaner gear supply, so we arent loaning them much of anything as of late.
LTC Tim
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Post by Bald Eagle on Mar 9, 2008 14:03:55 GMT -5
I have no problems lending out my spare kit. I do expect it returned in the same state as loaned out.
I do not lend out footwear due to size difference. The first item we tell possible new recruits to buy is boots.
Bald Eagle.
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Railsplitter
Major
"You'll be fighting WWII for the rest of your life" My father in 1972
Posts: 3,189
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Post by Railsplitter on Mar 11, 2008 15:13:08 GMT -5
A big pet peeve of mine...if you borrow a rifle, it comes back the way it went out, CLEAN!
LTC Tim
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Post by cameronj on Mar 11, 2008 21:38:25 GMT -5
A big pet peeve of mine...if you borrow a rifle, it comes back the way it went out, CLEAN! LTC Tim Cleaning the m1 rifle is one of the first things we teach our new men, and all rifles loaned, are always returned clean and in the same condition they left in..if not, then the recruit is finding himself doing some hard labor, of course after a crash course in cleaning the said weapon. |
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Post by twhigham on Mar 18, 2008 9:21:03 GMT -5
We have a list of minimum equipment that each recruit needs to have to become a recognized member, and he should have it by his 3rd event (we average 1 event a month, give or take a few). We do 101st Airborne so we expect each guy to "stand alone together"; in other words, we loan gear piecemeal to round out an impression, not build a complete one. Each guy brings his own gear and we loan stuff to build on the basic outfit. I don't mind loaning a tent and sleeping bag for multi-day events, but we expect new replacements to at least have their uniforms, boots, helmet, cartridge/pistol belt, suspenders, etc. if they want to hold themselves out as reenactors. Loaning weapons depends on the individual owner, and if its a new guy that nobody knows, he may be going into battle with just a dummy grenade and his entrenching tool.  But at least he's going in. I didn't have a rifle for my first two events, so I stayed out of the battle and shot photos for the unit. It was a good intro to the guys and at least I was able to contribute to the effort. It's a good way to make friends. |
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enfield43
T/3. 
"The WWII Generation, is the GREATEST generation that ever Lived"
Posts: 263
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Post by enfield43 on Mar 18, 2008 9:28:23 GMT -5
Well I'm new to WW2 reenacting and I inseast on my guys in my unit to let me use my rifle and boots. But the tell me don't worry about it and just use their loaner gear. This is a little pet peeve of mine is using gear that doesn't belong to me and not to depend on any body else. -Steve  |
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Post by twhigham on May 15, 2008 7:56:25 GMT -5
Well I'm new to WW2 reenacting and I inseast on my guys in my unit to let me use my rifle and boots. But the tell me don't worry about it and just use their loaner gear. This is a little pet peeve of mine is using gear that doesn't belong to me and not to depend on any body else. -Steve What's wrong with your rifle and boots that the guys in your unit won't let you use your gear? |
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