A little guidance

[armadous]

I am looking to assemble the basics of a WWII ear Paratrooper combat uniform. This isn’t for a reenactment so 99% authenticity isn’t essential however I want it to look good and authenticate to the average joe. Looking though a great many internet resources I have found a few internet sellers that seem reasonable so I’m good with the acquisition of my equipment.

Due to costs and other concerns I have decided to leave out the helmet, M1 Garand, and sidearm. I hope to get these later. What I want is to have the key elements that make the paratrooper combat uniform so instantly recognizable, besides the helmet :/.

As far as I can tell the items I really need are
1. M42 Paratrooper Trousers
2. M42 Paratrooper Jacket
3. M1923 Cartridge Belt
4. Musette Bag
5. Jump Boots
6. 101st Airborn Screaming Eagle Insignia
7. 48-star flag
8. Chevron

What other items should I really be including in this? Which are most essential?

Obviously this isn’t going to complete but I just need something that is just passably complete. Good enough now but something I can expand on to create a more complete and accurate uniform later.

Also, the boots are fairly pricey and with all the other stuff I'm really pushing my budget. Are there any quick, cheap, and dirty options available that would work well enough to fool some one whose WWII knowledge doesn’t extend past watching lets say Saving Private Ryan or Band of Brothers? I do plan to get some nice boots, but some acceptable cheap crap would be ok for now.

Any advice would be much appreciated.
Thanks

[pvtschulz]

Ok...

A paratrooper impression ain't cheap. You really can't do it right on the cheap. However, if you want a barely passible solution...

1. If you're going for a Normandy impression, you can drop the 48 star flag. Most of 101st didn't wear them. The 82d did though.
2. Make sure the jump boots are brown. You might get away with getting used modern black jump boots, stripping the color and dying them brown. That's a load of work though.
3. If you're doing a 101st trooper, then you'll want to get the rigger modified M42 uniform although in a pinch, you can get away with the unmodified if the folks you're trying to show it to don't know anything.
4. You'll want to make sure everything is Khaki vice olive drab. Some transition pieces (both khaki and OD on same equipment) is acceptible.
5. A couple of bandoliers for the M1 wouldn't hurt
6. A GP Bag would be good
7. A wool shirt for under the jump jacket would be good. The M42 was designed to be worn over the wools.
8. If you're not getting a helmet, you'll need an overseas cap. Green wool with the infantry (blue) piping and a parachute patch (light blue circle with a parachute on it in white). I would suggest digging a little deeper and getting the helmet though.
9. You should have a drop rope to tie to your web gear or to your musette bag.
10. A rubber gasmask bag would be good, but not absolutely necessary
11. A green chemical detection arm brassard would be good but not necessary

Hope this helps.

[Danger Forward]

Are you looking for web gear as well? Or just the basic uniform?
Basic uniform would be 42's (re-enforced for Normandy), Jump boots and overseas cap. You can get all of this for about $200.

With web gear- cartridge or pistol belt, M-36 suspenders and musette bag, E tool (shovel) with cover, canteen with cover and first aid pouch. You can get this for about $100 or less if you are smart about it.

Division patch, I would personally go with the 82nd as they had more jumps, spent more days in combat and won more awards (battle and individual) than any other AB division during the war.
Schultz is right, no flag for the 101 Normandy, but will need one for 8nd.

These are the absolute bare essentials.

The brassard, chevrons, GP bag, rope, gas mask bag and wool shirt are not essential.

Good Luck!

[jimmy51]

I'm no airborne expert, but I think a jeep cap instead of the overseas cap wouldn't hurt.

[armadous]

Thanks, this really helps a lot. I didn't even think about a bandolier.

Having read through the wikipedia page on the 82nd I have decided I would indeed rather go with that. I'm no history buff but I have invested a decent amount of time researching WWII, although I do admit probably 1/2 of my knowledge comes from the history channel. I'm sure I must have noticed but it never stuck that the 82nd were involved in the battle of the bulge. Which is kind of a big thing, I'm fairly disappointed in myself that I missed that rather large detail.

Now before I hit the buy button, I just want be sure I've got the right thing, and that it looks the way it should. This is the best price I could find. Do these look ok?

onlinemilitaria.net/shopexd.asp?id=2015&bc=no
onlinemilitaria.net/shopexd.asp?id=2029&bc=no

[pvtschulz]

Yeah, 82d was up on the north shoulder of the Bulge. Big time involved. The uniform looks ok, but for an 82d impression, I'd go with an unreinforced uniform. the reinforced uniforms were more prevalent in the 101st than in the 82d. Sure some existed in the 82d, but generally they wore unreinforced 42s. At The Front used to carry a good set of unreinforced M42s. Helpinghand's list is the absolute minimum, he is right. Also, considering you are looking at an 82d impression, skip the drop rope as they didn't carry them.

Good luck.

[Danger Forward]

You can go with a re-enforced uniform for the 82nd for a Normandy impression. The 505, 507, 508 all wore re-enforced uniforms.
The 505 had a majority of the re-enforced uniforms as they had a whole quartermastr company tasked specifically to adding re-enforcements to the uniform. The 507 and the 508 would be less so as they got whatever riggers had the time to modify the uniforms as well as the leftover QM comany personnel.

The let down rope was also used by the 82nd AB as well, but for the basic impression you are looking for, you dont need it.

Also, the jeep cap is a great substitute for the overseas cap, and would be worn in a "combat" scenario...good call on that Jimmy!

The 82nd was indeed the northern shoulder of the Bulge as Schultz said. In fact, if General Gavin had not had the forsight to get a company of trucks attached to the 82nd, the mighty Eighty Deuce would have been sent to Bastogne instead of the 101.

[pvtschulz]

Roger. Reinforced for Normandy is ok. I was thinking in order to cover a larger time period for the least amount of $$$ that an unreinforced M42 would be better. You don't see much if any reinforcing prior to Normandy. Big time roger on the trucks.

[oldmp]

Oct 8, 2008 10:19:25 GMT -5 armadous said:

Thanks, this really helps a lot. I didn't even think about a bandolier.

Having read through the wikipedia page on the 82nd I have decided I would indeed rather go with that. I'm no history buff but I have invested a decent amount of time researching WWII, although I do admit probably 1/2 of my knowledge comes from the history channel. I'm sure I must have noticed but it never stuck that the 82nd were involved in the battle of the bulge. Which is kind of a big thing, I'm fairly disappointed in myself that I missed that rather large detail.

Now before I hit the buy button, I just want be sure I've got the right thing, and that it looks the way it should. This is the best price I could find. Do these look ok?

onlinemilitaria.net/shopexd.asp?id=2015&bc=no
onlinemilitaria.net/shopexd.asp?id=2029&bc=no

You can not go wrong with Jerry's (WPG) gear. His products are outstanding and customer service is number one!

Mike

[Buggnkat]

Agreed, actually you see far more reenforced suits in the 82nd than the 101st. 505 and 504 came from Italy and those units were pretty mauled. The 04s stuck around to play with Jerry, and there is evidence of their suits being reenforced with leather. 05's had time to refit and taken on replacements from the States, so you get a good variety of uniforms there both reenforced and not.

Picking a battalion is a neccessity almost more so than regiment, reason being the uniform variations were pretty great in the 05s.

Jeep caps were not a huge hit with Gen Gavin. He hated them with a passion. This was related to me by Phill McKnight (1/505). His dislike meant a ticket from the MPs if caught wearing them. Phill got the shake down by the man himself. Luckly the Gen didnt have his always present note book in his jump jacket so Phill never had to off the cash.

I agree with Hand, on the 07s and 08s.

Greg Lee

[oldmp]

Oct 8, 2008 15:25:35 GMT -5 Buggnkat said:

Agreed, actually you see far more reenforced suits in the 82nd than the 101st. 505 and 504 came from Italy and those units were pretty mauled. The 04s stuck around to play with Jerry, and there is evidence of their suits being reenforced with leather. 05's had time to refit and taken on replacements from the States, so you get a good variety of uniforms there both reenforced and not.

Picking a battalion is a neccessity almost more so than regiment, reason being the uniform variations were pretty great in the 05s.

Jeep caps were not a huge hit with Gen Gavin. He hated them with a passion. This was related to me by Phill McKnight (1/505). His dislike meant a ticket from the MPs if caught wearing them. Phill got the shake down by the man himself. Luckly the Gen didnt have his always present note book in his jump jacket so Phill never had to off the cash.

I agree with Hand, on the 07s and 08s.

Greg Lee

Greg,

You beat me to it. Gavin hated those beanies, and threatened to take stripes, jump pay etc.

Mike

[Danger Forward]

Aaagh...It slipped my mind about Gavins dislike. I knew he hated em, but I was thinking along the lines of cheap alternative and what people think a soldier would have...he said himself that appearance, not authenticity was his #1 goal....but you guys were actually absolutely correct on the jeep cap!

[Buggnkat]

well you know how it goes, first thing out the window is the memory.....

Good news is you forget why you are mad or why you are doing something. Unfortunatley the Supreme Commander (Read Wife) is the counter balance on that. Constantly reminding us......

Now what in hades name were we talking about again....

Gre....<reads underware for name> Fruit of the Loom Size 42

[armadous]

I've done a good bit of digging trying to figure what exactly "rigger modified" means. What I've been able to find hasn't been exactly enlightening though. The best I can tell it just means the reinforcing was adding on after the fact.

Does that mean a rigger modified 42 is the same thing as a reinforced 42? It seems likely to me that there would be more to it than that.

[Buggnkat]

Well rigger modified is a term used to talk about everything from reenforcing the pockets to adding bandoliers to coat tails to adding pockets on the sleeves.

For the most part the reenforcements were done to uniforms that were either becoming or were non-servicable. Several accounts of troopers were about when loaded the pockets failed at the coat, and the leg pockets were trashed when they failed at the bottom were they are sewed to the pant.

Now some of the bandoliers were added by both the 82nd and 101st. Most added them to the inside of their coat tails. I have seen a couple sewed to the sleeve, and one split on both sides of the front of the coat.

Hope this helps.

Greg