Ww2 reenacting downturn?

[williegford]

I agree that the hobby seems to have evolved (or devolved as the case may be) into factions. As Martin stated this was not always the case. Those who have been doing this too long to admit remember when there were only what we'd call "tacticals" today. The closest you came to a "living history" event was setting up a display at a reunion. I can remember 29th ID reunions where there were literally over a thousand veterans attending but I digress. We are now reduced to judging who's type of WWII reenacting is better or less farby. In my opinion, each of the three categories of events listed has it's own share of farbs. I've seen as many at "tacticals" as I have at airshows or living history events. That's one part of the hobby that seems to be thriving.

As an aside, I wouldn't be so bold as to say the "tactical only" guys are so much safer then guys who prefer living history. I've seen some "tactical only" types who have far less firearms safety awareness then other "living history" types.

Bill

[Boogiewoogie]

I would put that event under the same banner as a tactical. There is nothing for anyone to gain, beyond the participants.

I have a perfect example here. Matt went to an airshow in our area. Most of my group didn't go. I have a few reasons for not attending. The most important was, I only could get time off for one event. The event I picked was a tactical event, that I fell out with his unit, but he didn't go because of other commitments.

Was there a downturn? I don't know. If we both had different jobs, well that might make things different. I have the current job for the insurance benefits. I gotta balance my finances with my hobby.

Martin

[mburch66]

I have permanent ear damage due to an idiot that blasted a .45 over my head. Should I have been wearing ear plugs? Yes. My fault there. But this guy comes out once a year or so and he just has no clue about what is going on around him. We are both at fault. I just ended up the real loser.

[sweatlock]

As a German reenactor, I'm not that interested in Air Shows or LH events - when German reenactors do attend such events, most of us are treated as a "necessary evil" and no more than props, similar to Ron Jeremy's member in a skin flick. Try teaching to the public at large that the average German Heer infantryman during WWII felt that he was simply serving his country and doing what he felt was right at the time and see what kind of reaction you get from the PC Gamer crowd. These events are geared primarily to the Allied side of things and any public battles, if there are any, are scripted mainly for entertainment value, not historical accuracy. When veterans are mentioned, it's basically intended to mean U.S. G.I. veterans, not British, Soviet or German veterans. And good luck trying to overcome any preconceived notions as the result of the conditioning/teaching prevalent in public schools within that 10 or 15 minute window at that Air Show or Living History event.

My limited experience with Air Shows and Living History events is that everyone brings out their finery - for the most part, it's not farby at all, other than that everything is so clean. If you wanted to give people a very small taste of how it really was, you'd show up stinking w/ B.O., wearing a torn and shabby uniform, & swearing up a storm.

It's interesting that the older reenactors are the ones who are the most vocal regarding their preference for what is known today as "tacticals". You would think that as they grew older they would tend to gravitate towards the more static displays of LH and AS. But that doesn't seem to be the case, unless something catastrophic in the way of knee or back surgery occurs, or the all-too-common heart condition.

To me, LH and AS events are boring - of the two, Air Shows are more interesting due to the aircraft present. But dressing up and standing around for hours on end just doesn't appeal to me for some reason. Although it could be argued that some tacticals feel that way sometimes as well, lol. Or dealing with the public for that matter, including answering inane questions, or having to argue with people when they want to fondle your display items, despite the fact that they are clearly identified as "Please - Do Not Touch." Perhaps part of the public education should be devoted towards literacy as well as history.

My take on the whole thing is - do what you feel is fun. If you consider LH or AS events more enjoyable than a tactical, by all means attend them. I personally consider tacticals far more enjoyable than either of the aforementioned options, but that's just me. In another twenty years (I'm 46 now) I may change my mind. Just keep in mind that this continued polarization within WWII reenacting as a whole will most likely result in smaller tacticals, which is not necessarily a bad thing - some of the best events I've ever attended had fewer than 50 participants total, resulting in quality over quantity. It is interesting though that when I first started out in reenacting over twenty year ago most events were two-day affairs; nowadays, most are just one day. Go figure.

Let's face it - tacticals are strenuous, they're physically & tactically challenging, there's the potential for damaging your equipment & gear, you could hurt yourself, etc. And there are guys who like to simply collect stuff and dress up in it, and the thought of a rip in their uniform sends shivers up their spine. Or they have a legitimate physical or medical condition, whether genetic or self-induced, that prevents them from attending tacticals. Or they just don't want to get sweaty & dirty and "camping out" equates to staying at an Econo-Lodge for the night. For these guys, LH and AS events are tailor-made.

The admonition regarding the knowledge level of the average reenactor and the attempts to pass this knowledge along to the general public bears serious thought - make sure that you're thoroughly versed in WWII history and not just passing along the same old, worn-out cliches that you've learned by rote. If the latter, then you're actually providing a disservice, rather than a service, to the general public.

As far as learning history, I'll paraphrase Russell Crowe, "If you want to be entertained, go see a movie; if you want to learn about history, go read a book."

[ericbruce25]

I just wish there was more going on in my home state of Georgia. I can't leave town due to lack of funds which really sucks sometimes.

[ross74]

Yeah, there is not alot going on here in Alabama as well. I wish there were more events closer. I have spent alot of money on my gear , I would like to use it more . CW events are more frequent , down here, than WW2.

[Railsplitter]

The lack of access to good manuever space has definately impacted tacticals. Many events in 70s and 80s used military or guard owned land. That has mostly tightened up with a few exceptions. Also, military safety rules are much tighter. Like for FIG, they have to get a waiver to conduct the tactical while not wearing eye protection.

LTC Tim

[ross74]

Places that we held CW reenactmets now have houses on them.

[mburch66]

We are lucky here in CO. We have access to Fort Carson and TONS of room, not to mention BLM land and National Parks. Heck, we have even played on land that was once Camp Hale. It's pretty cool to get out there on the same land that the 10th Mtn. trained on. Makes for some pretty good photo ops. I am surprised we dont do more major stuff here since we have such a variety of terrain. We could do Germany, Bulge, Italy, Scicly, and maybe even parts of France. No bocage out here that I know of though.

[seppbradner]

Up here in the northwest area of the United states, ww2 reenacting is doing great and growing. Everyone I meet who I tell about ww2 reenacting dont know such a thing existed but think its even more awesome than CW reenacting. (they all already know about CW reenactors). My own unit, which is the only Grossdeutschland unit in the area is having great success in getting new recruits (mostly young guys), and our whole organization (army group '44) is getting plenty of interest. We are expanding our events and public appearances as well. Our units were even on the local news in spokane, WA thanks to one of the american reenactors being a cameraman there and making a smashingly good video at a recent training event. So we are doing And best yet, our american coutnerparts arent ALL 101st airborne lol ;^) . We have a really really good local british airborne unit too. Great guys and tenacious fighters to say the least. The local soviet reenactors are also a great die hard group.

[1stofthefirst]

I know I am beginning to suffer a little from "burnout." I still enjoy re-enacting and enjoy the fellows, but going to the same events year after year (except Conneaut and Geneseo, those are always going to be good) gets old.

I am always looking for new events to go to and new things to see. It is harder because of my personal life with three kids and being a full-time college student, but if I have the time and the event is there, I go to it.

I do think the future of re-enacting is going to go where you have Allied units and German units and the Balkanization of the hobby and start to combine and form one giant unit. Many guys have multiple impressions already and it would just make good sense if you have an allied group and a German group that get along and do many of the same events to join together and pool the men, resources and such.

That way, no matter what the event, you have a built in "enemy" if need be or a large, diverse allied/German unit to showcase and recruit...

[TomClegg]

Gentlemen,

The fact that I haven't posted or even visited this site in sometime indicates, at least personally, a downturn in this dimension of my living history interests. Apart from interpretive programs, formal education programming and very small intergroup private events I have lost interest in attempting to recreate WW2 in a wider tactical environment. This is due to one overarching factor:

The absence of a unifying national organization, or equal, to enforce safety and authenticity standards. As well as providing clear, previously understood and agreed upon event objectives. These cause "events" to be too often: woefully unsafe, largely uninteresting and/or hopelessly unrealistic. Thus lacking nearly any educational value to the participant much less the spectator/attendee.

When reenacting drifts away from being a shared learning event for either the participant or the spectator/attendee it simply becomes something else. Call it game playing or whatever you choose but the reader must agree little if anything is learned.

The frustration of developing impressions to museum quality for events only to be greeted by organizers who do not enforce their own rules is to say the least a "buzz kill."

The obvious exception to the above is for those who are making the above their first event since almost every first event is a sensory overload and therefore deemed GREAT! This however is a tiny minority since most groups do little or no recruiting as they are trying to become more authentic and less fray. This indicates what little outreach, training and mentoring typical of most groups.

Thus the splintering, diffusion of units and lack of overall unity cause too many public events to be overly small and therefore paint an unrealistic picture of the conflict to the paying audience.

Lastly, whether a public "battle" or "tactical" so much time and energy i have to spend keeping untrained recruits from other "units" from literally killing each other or myself is not what anyone is really interested in doing with their free time.

The increase of theft at events as mentioned on another thread is an additional energy sink.

It is my personal opinion that a national organizing body could bring order to the afore mentioned issues. The SCA and NRA are two fairly good examples of how such a body could be organized. As long as there is consistent accoutability for all those who handle the organization's communication, membership roles and standards, decision making, most importantly the money the hobby could enjoy a much greater stability, participation and credibility.

Forgive my ramblings gentlemen, this is my humble two cents worth.

See you in the assembly area!

Tom

[sgtsaunders]

Nov 12, 2011 12:58:56 GMT -5 TomClegg said:

Gentlemen,


The absence of a unifying national organization, or equal, to enforce safety and authenticity standards. As well as providing clear, previously understood and agreed upon event objectives. These cause "events" to be too often: woefully unsafe, largely uninteresting and/or hopelessly unrealistic. Thus lacking nearly any educational value to the participant much less the spectator/attendee.

There are many good Parent Co-Op Organizations in the United States which are better at dealing with such issues in their local areas and regions. A Federal Governing Body I doubt would do better than these focused organizations.

Website – Forum- [CHG] California Historical Group (26 units)
Website – Forum- [RPS] Research & Preservation Society (14 units)
Website – Forum- [NWTO] Northwest Theater of Operations (4 units)
Website – Forum- [AG44] Army Group 44 (3 units)
Website – Forum- [WMHS] Western Military Historical Society (5 units)
Website – Forum- [NWHA] Northwest Historical Association (5 units)
Website – Forum- [GPWA] Great Patriotic War Association (2 units)
Website – Forum- [HFA] Historical Forces Association (4 units)
Website – Forum- [CMHG] Colorado Military History Group, Inc (6 units)
Website – Forum- [TMHS] Texas Military Historical Society (17 units)
Website – Forum- [HRS] Historical Reenactment Society (106 units)
Website – Forum- [LHRA] Living History Reenactment Association (aka TSG) (48 units)
Website – Forum- [HAF] Historical Association of Florida
Website – Forum- [FHPG] Florida Historical Preservation Group
Website – Forum- [W2HPG] WW2 Historical Preservation Group (12 units)
Website – Forum- [SWWIIRA] WW2 Southern WWII Reenactors Association (14 units)
Website – Forum- [VCMHA] Virginia Carolina Military History Association, Inc (4 units)