Class A's- Wearing of Valor Medals?

[Schultz]

I have a related question to those who are against awards and such. How do you feel about rank?

[Gunny57]

I've earned my Jump Wings.....but I wear Glider Wings (which only THEM could earn...no more after WWII)...am a bit jittery about CIB, but many Vets told me they don't mind, as they understand....nothing else, no valour medals whatsoever.
I am now portraying a 325th GIR M. Sgt. and the 82nd got so many fourrageres and unit decorations that you show up glittering a lot even limiting yourself, so....I limit myself.

happy as i am....I want to remember them...I know what they did...and that cannot be represented 100%...the valour, belongs to them, no one else.

[TC1c Dunigan]

Jan 11, 2009 21:03:21 GMT -5 Schultz said:

I have a related question to those who are against awards and such. How do you feel about rank?

While I am one of those not against CIB and ribbon wearing as long as what is worn is appropriate for an average GI in any theater of operation. My answer to this particular question is that rank especially within a unit should be commensurate with the number of individuals in the unit.

Like my unit, we're a squad... :

(1) Sergeant ~ (Sqd. Ldr./Able Sec. Ldr.)
(2) Corporal's ~ (Asst. Sqd. Ldr./Charlie Sec. Ldr./Baker Sec. Ldr.)
(2) Private First Class's ~ (Auto. Riflmn./Asst. Auto. Riflmn.)
(9) Privates ~ (Riflemen/Radioman/Medic).

Total = 14.

No officers. No need for them.

Regards,
FRISCAN

[young 90th]

something that bothers me is when everybody has the DI's on there 4 pocket (not Ikes, Ikes are more postwar which is where they are common)
just to give an example:
www.ww2-airborne.us/units/504/504images/troopers/a/dapacky1.jpg
www.ww2-airborne.us/units/504/504images/troopers/a/pvt_james_f_gaygan_504a.jpg
www.ww2-airborne.us/units/504/504images/troopers/c/pfc_william_mack_satterfield_504cbs.jpg
www.ww2-airborne.us/units/319/319images/troopers/sgt_m_e_sebring_319.jpg
www.90thdivisionassoc.org/90thDivisionFolders/familyalbum/originals/Foye/Web%20donfoye%201943.jpg
www.90thdivisionassoc.org/90thDivisionFolders/familyalbum/originals/mullen/HMullen%20Photograph%20(2).jpg
I will come up with more examples soon
Lil Beav

[TC1c Dunigan]

Lil Beav,

The reason those photos(more than likely) show no Distinctive Unit Insignia is because those photos we're probably taken right after basic training when they still we're yet to be assigned to a particular unit. They more than likely wore the DUI's after they were assigned.

Examples:

Color Guard, U.S. 30th Infantry Regiment. In front of the Presidio, Sand Francisco, HQ, ca. 1941.

i130.photobucket.com/albums/p254/aco_30thir_3rdid/PresidioLife1941_0.jpg

Two guys at the far table in the back ground at chow, ca. 1941.

i130.photobucket.com/albums/p254/aco_30thir_3rdid/PresidioLife1941_1.jpg

Guard Detail at the Presidio of San Francisco, ca. 1941.

i130.photobucket.com/albums/p254/aco_30thir_3rdid/PresidioLife1941_5.jpg

British Field Marshall Alexander is accompanied by First Battalion commander Major. Kenneth A. Noseck inspecting the 1st Battalion, U.S. 30th Infantry Regiment at the Salzburg Airport, ca. 1945

i130.photobucket.com/albums/p254/aco_30thir_3rdid/30thInfReviewSalzburg.jpg

Pfc. Lee E. Hatfield, Fox Co., U.S. 30th Infantry Regiment, ca. 1945.

i157.photobucket.com/albums/t73/dalbey58/original%20pics%202/leehat1.jpg

Regards,
FRISCAN

[young 90th]

Jimmy,
There was a reason I did not use 3rd ID to show my point.
they were a pre war unit, everything was done by the book and DI's were worn.
Also in 1945 guys who had been fighting since June of 1944 finally got there class A's.
They were probably issued Ike Jackets and took the time to get all the badges needed.
look at drafty units like
90th
30th
5th
84th
etc.
it is much less common in 1942-1944
Lil Beav

[greaser]

Friscan-

I believe that regular army / old line divisions that were active prewar are far more likely to have higher percentages of DI's and uniform detail than that of Guard and Reserve divisions activated during the war. Prewar Garritroopers had the time and money to get all the accessories - and took great pride in their uniforms and appearance. The draftee of 42, 43 and 44 may not have had the same priorities, motivation, money and accessibility to DI's. The draftees may have had limited opportunity to purchase the DI's, when they were available/ready, with that opportunity not re-appearing until the postwar occupation.

I believe in researching individual units first, to develop trends from there - but if there is one caveat that I apply across the board: Less is More.

It is certainly not incorrect to have very little fruit salad on your class A's. Of the total time spent in service, the Class A's were mostly worn stateside, and then during the Occupation. When guys had the opportunity to go on leave from their combat units - more often than not, they were separated from their Class A's, or recieved clean issue, sans fruit salad.

I have my own opinions about fruit salad and what is "right" to wear and what is not, but, I wont go there.

Less is More. (for many cases)

Chris-

[mjerickson]

I agree with Friscans first post regarding the CBI, if your portraly is an infantryman and you have an arrowhead or battle stars on the campaign ribbons the CIB would be a no brainer. I have also talked to vets that are ok with reenactors wearing the CIB. They know what we are doing representing the era. I also agree with Friscan in regard to rank, it should conform to the period structure as closely as possalble taking into account the size of your unit.

After re-reading my first post I dont want anyone to misunderstand. The wearing of valor medals is pretty much a no-no across the board in orgainized reenactor units. Some allow you to wear them if your portaying a family member or a spicifc person. I would personaly not do that and its been batted around above so Ill leave it at that.

[sgtsaunders]

It appears this topic is one base in emotion of "reenactor opinions". It is obviously that there is no consensus of opinion.

It seems to me the source of the problem lies in that some guys would do a good job of wearing and explaining the medals, and other guys would just wear them as another piece of their costume, thereby cheaping the medals and what they mean.

I think it is the fear that those guys who would overuse or over do the use of medals would in the end bring more pissed off attitudes towards reenactors in general, so why risk it.

[Wambleyburger]

For what it's worth, I've personally seen several veterans get very upset because they saw one of the reenactors wearing the purple heart. I actually thought one of the old gentlemen was going to have a stroke, he got so upset. His reasoning was that the reenactor never saw battle and was never injured in the line of duty, therefore, he did not have the right to wear it. He went on about how he was shot up severely in the Pacific and walked with a limp to that day because of it. I could actually see the old guys point and due to that fact, I won't wear anything other than the basic ribbons, just so I don't offend any of the vets. And I personnally feel the same way. I didn't earn them so I don't need to be wearing them. I agree with Martin. Go down and enlist if you want to earn a valor medal.

[dogcomedic]

Our unit regs prohibit the wearing of valor ribbons unless you have actually earned it in service. We allow our unit campaign ribbons: American Service and Campaign, Pacific campaign, ETO/MTO. We allow a good conduct ribbon with one full year of participation in the unit. We also allow the soldier's ribbon for those of us old enough to have been in service before the war. Also allowed for the 87th only is the Kiska Patch.

We have only an NCO for command structure. After one year of membership, you are allowed to wear a PFC stripe, but that is personal choice, we prefer slick sleeve.

My Dad won a few valor medals in service, but they were HIS medals, he earned them. I did not. Therefore they remain pinned to the flag presented to the family at his funeral. I can honor him by looking at them there, and remembering the good man he truly was. If I wore them, no one but me would know what they truly meant, both to him and me.

To each his own, do what your heart tells you is right.

Remember, most vets are very modest about what they did.

Doc Phil

[2idreenactor]

Jan 12, 2009 8:25:23 GMT -5 dogcomedic said:

My Dad won a few valor medals in service, but they were HIS medals, he earned them. I did not. Therefore they remain pinned to the flag presented to the family at his funeral. I can honor him by looking at them there, and remembering the good man he truly was. If I wore them, no one but me would know what they truly meant, both to him and me.

To each his own. Remember, most vets are very modest about what they did.

Doc Phil

You make a very good point. I guess I was wrong to think I could do that. I was just trying to find something to do for him, since everyone in my family knows VERY little about what he did(he never talked about it), and the fact that he died right after I was born and I never really knew him.

Its also been very frustraiting trying to find out just what unit he was in. I have his service record, and under the list of his campaigns it has listed Africa, Italy, Ardennes, and Rhineland, or something like that.Theres one more in there I can't remember. But his uniform has a 70th Infantry Division patch on it an they were obviously no where near Africa or Italy.Obviousy he must've been transferred but I would love to find out who he served with in Africa and Italy so I could base an impression off of his unit. All I know is he said he served under Patton while there. He would have had to be either 1st or 3rd division, wouldn't he?

[Buggnkat]

He could have served in a non-divisional unit too. My grandfather served in the 7th and 5th Armys as an infantryman.

If his records werent destroyed you could try the HRC in St Louis. His 201 might have survived.

Greg Lee

[Danger Forward]

I honestly think its nobody's business but your own to decide what to wear and ot to wear. Each unit has their own individual standards and reasons for wearing of awards and if you feel comfortable, you should wear what you want to wear without having to justify it to anyone. It is your impression. If somebody gets bent out of shape and gets all in your face, tell them politely to mind their own business.
I'll never forget when a guy came up to a very good friend of mine who was wearing valor medals and proceeded to give him grief and attitude (very loudly and with great pomp and circumstance) about the medals on his chest. My friend then pulled out his DD-214 and showed that the Silver Star, Purple Heart with a pip and Bronze Star with a V were his. The guy skulked away and was made a fool of in front of about 2000 people.
While that was an instance where the medals were earned by the wearer, my question was, why did the guy feel that he had the right to question what someone else had on his uniform?

Why does anybody feel they have the right to question anyone about how they wear their impression? Especially publicly?

[williegford]

Jan 11, 2009 22:24:45 GMT -5 TC1c Dunigan said:

Lil Beav,

The reason those photos(more than likely) show no Distinctive Unit Insignia is because those photos we're probably taken right after basic training when they still we're yet to be assigned to a particular unit. They more than likely wore the DUI's after they were assigned.

The wearing of DI's is an interesting topic also. In portraying the 29th (a national guard unit) I have seen photo's of guys both in the states pre-war wearing the DI's and in England '43 wearing their class A's on leave without DI's. I think alot of what you do depends on what you are trying to portray. Keep in mind that most guys did not receive all their medals and the CIB until after hostilities. So if you want to portray a guy in Germany '45 after VE day then wearing the CIB and ribbons (if you're not opposed to that) is fine. If you're portraying a guy in England '43 on leave in London (which is my preference) then the odds are your best bet is to leave all that stuff off including DI's. I agree with what Greaser said, "Less is more".

Bill

[Dave]

Jan 12, 2009 11:56:52 GMT -5 Danger Forward said:

I honestly think its nobody's business but your own to decide what to wear and ot to wear. Each unit has their own individual standards and reasons for wearing of awards and if you feel comfortable, you should wear what you want to wear without having to justify it to anyone. It is your impression. If somebody gets bent out of shape and gets all in your face, tell them politely to mind their own business.
I'll never forget when a guy came up to a very good friend of mine who was wearing valor medals and proceeded to give him grief and attitude (very loudly and with great pomp and circumstance) about the medals on his chest. My friend then pulled out his DD-214 and showed that the Silver Star, Purple Heart with a pip and Bronze Star with a V were his. The guy skulked away and was made a fool of in front of about 2000 people.
While that was an instance where the medals were earned by the wearer, my question was, why did the guy feel that he had the right to question what someone else had on his uniform?

Why does anybody feel they have the right to question anyone about how they wear their impression? Especially publicly?

I'm going to agree with Helpinghand here and continue to say,

This is a volunteer hobby, What you decide to wear to represent, and honor, those who gave up so much is up to you. If someone gives you grief just simply explain that you're doing this to educate others.

[sgtsaunders]

Jan 12, 2009 11:56:52 GMT -5 Danger Forward said:

Why does anybody feel they have the right to question anyone about how they wear their impression? Especially publicly?

You're absolutely correct what ever we want to do in the privacy of your private events, so long as it is in good taste; there should be no problem.

It is just we don't reenact in a bubble or a vaccum. We unfortunatley do this in the "public eye". All this hobby needs is a few bad press stories of yet another reenactor doing something which gets bad attention.

[Danger Forward]

But honestly, how many non-renactors really know the difference? I have been re-enacting for a while now, almost 10 years, and I have never had anyone, veteran or regular member of the public, come up and question me about anything I have had on my uniform that was not a question of "what is that used for?"

But I have been accosted by many a re-enactor, publicly, privately, while I was eating, dancing, talking with friends, any number of things about the ribbons I wear on my chest and why I wear them.

The general public doesnt give a rats rear end about what you or I wear on our class A uniforms, 99% of them couldnt tell you what a class A was or what the ribbons stood for anyway, and the only bad press I ever see is when re-enactors go out and do something stupid, like get drunk and tear up a bar, or damage property or shoot each other. And in none of those articles does it even mention what uniforms they were wearing, let alone what ribbons they had on....

[35divmp]

Jan 13, 2009 0:09:54 GMT -5 Danger Forward said:

But honestly, how many non-renactors really know the difference? I have been re-enacting for a while now, almost 10 years, and I have never had anyone, veteran or regular member of the public, come up and question me about anything I have had on my uniform that was not a question of "what is that used for?"

But I have been accosted by many a re-enactor, publicly, privately, while I was eating, dancing, talking with friends, any number of things about the ribbons I wear on my chest and why I wear them.

The general public doesnt give a rats rear end about what you or I wear on our class A uniforms, 99% of them couldnt tell you what a class A was or what the ribbons stood for anyway, and the only bad press I ever see is when re-enactors go out and do something stupid, like get drunk and tear up a bar, or damage property or shoot each other. And in none of those articles does it even mention what uniforms they were wearing, let alone what ribbons they had on....

Sir:

You just hit the nail on the head with the "The general public doesnt give a rats rear end about what you or I wear on our class A uniforms, 99% of them couldnt tell you what a class A was or what the ribbons stood for anyway..." statement.

The general public is stupid when it comes to ribbons (valor or otherwise).

Jay

[kilroy]

So why don't we see more reenactors wearing valor medals?