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Post by sturgill on Mar 8, 2011 19:43:20 GMT -5
This is an impression that Im working on for an immersion event. It is far from "detailed", and any comments, suggestions, criticisms, etc. are welcome. Impression:121st Infantry Regiment 8th Infantry Division Hurtgen Forest November 1944 Original Photos:flic.kr/p/9oVrRgflic.kr/p/9oYvjCflic.kr/p/9oVpNFflic.kr/p/9oYu4hflic.kr/p/9oYspqflic.kr/p/9oYsmmMy Impression:flic.kr/p/9oY5PUflic.kr/p/9oV1Yxflic.kr/p/9oV3Rz(I apologize for how blurry this one is. We tried it a couple of times, but this was actually the best one.) flic.kr/p/9oV2KRPacking List:Headgear:Fix Bale Helmet and High Pressure Liner (J. Murray) with 1/4" Net (Original) Uniform:M1941 Field Jacket (Original) M1942 Wool Shirt, Special (with gas flap) (Original) M1937 Wool Trousers with Web Belt (Original) GI Athletic Summer Undershirt (Original) GI Winter Undershirt (Original) GI Summer Drawers (Boxers) (At the Front) Leather Palm Wool Gloves (Original) Roughout Service Shoes (World War II Impressions) M1938 Dismounted Leggings (Original) GI Socks (Original) Field Equipment:M1936 Pistol Belt (Original) M1 Carbine Magazine Pouch (At the Front) M1924 First Aid Pouch with Bandage Tin (Original) M1910 Dismounted Canteen Carrier with Canteen and Cup (Original) M1943 Entrenching Tool with 1st Pattern Carrier (Original) Bedroll, containing: -Wool Blanket -Red Cross Sweater Vest (Original) -Civilian T-Shirt (Modern In Period Style) -2x GI Socks (Original) -Tooth Brush (Service of Supply) -Civilian Scarf (Hand-Crocheted by Zach Whiles) -Jeep Cap (National Capital Historic Sales) -C-Ration M-3 Unit (Reproduction, made by myself) -K-Ration Supper Meat Can and Accessory Packet (Reproduction, made by myself) Personal Items (Carried On Person And In Pockets Of Uniform):GI Watch (Original) ID Tags (WWII Dogtags) with M1940 Dogtag Chain (m1940dogtagchain.com) GI Bone-Handle Pocket Knife (Original) P38 Can Opener (Service of Supply) K-Ration Toilet Paper (Reproduction, made by myself) "Juicy Fruit" Gum from K-Ration (Reproduction, made by myself) "Old Gold" Cigarettes from K-Ration (Reproduction, made by myself) D-Ration (Service of Supply) GI Spoon from Messkit (Original) Weapons:M1 Carbine (Inland Division) with Web Sling (Reproduction) Again, any and all comments, suggestions, criticisms, etc. are welcome. Thanks, -Shawn
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Post by williegford on Mar 8, 2011 20:48:12 GMT -5
Looking good Shawn. A couple of questions/comments.
-Where's your first aid pouch, hidden behind your bedroll?
-Also, is that a black string on your left legging? If so, I'd get a new set of legging strings.
-I'd add either a gas mask bag or a '28 pack to carry your necessities. Your bedroll normally gets left behind during an attack and it catches up with you later.
Again, great job.
Bill
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Post by guitarmaster on Mar 8, 2011 20:53:40 GMT -5
Looking good Shawn. A couple of questions/comments. -I'd add either a gas mask bag or a '28 pack to carry your necessities. Your bedroll normally gets left behind during an attack and it catches up with you later. The same could be said about the '28 pack too if it was worn like a backpack instead of being attached to your pistol/cartridge belt. I know guys did it, not sure who exactly though. I was going to ask about the legging laces too. Looks excellent though! -Ian
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Post by sturgill on Mar 8, 2011 21:05:12 GMT -5
Looking good Shawn. A couple of questions/comments. -Where's your first aid pouch, hidden behind your bedroll? -Also, is that a black string on your left legging? If so, I'd get a new set of legging strings. -I'd add either a gas mask bag or a '28 pack to carry your necessities. Your bedroll normally gets left behind during an attack and it catches up with you later. Again, great job. Bill Bill, Thanks for the compliments. As for your questions: -Yes, the bedroll is covering up the first aid pouch. -Yes, that is some kind of brown lace that I had to use as a replacement. I am trying to track down a set of legging laces, but WPG is sold out and I am not sure who else would have them? -I may add a gas mask bag. We haven't seen a lot of '28 packs in the 121st/8th, so I would like to stay away from that, unless additional research shows otherwise. I'd still like to "mess around" some here and see what works best. Thanks, -Shawn
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Post by TC1c Dunigan on Mar 8, 2011 21:15:47 GMT -5
Looking good Shawn. Yeah, the three things we are definite of that we haven't seen are: (1) Combat Boots (2) M-1928 Haversacks (3) M-1943 Jackets Things we do see: (1) M-1941 Jackets (2) A mixture of Shoe pacs and Service shoes w/ leggings (3) Bed Rolls (4) Little use of insignia. Regards, FRISCAN
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Post by Carper on Mar 8, 2011 22:39:27 GMT -5
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Post by Boogiewoogie on Mar 8, 2011 23:13:11 GMT -5
You need to check out page 36 and 37 in Time Life's WW2 series, The Battle of the Bulge. No insignia and no 43's? Yeah right.
Martin
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Post by sturgill on Mar 8, 2011 23:21:47 GMT -5
You need to check out page 36 and 37 in Time Life's WW2 series, The Battle of the Bulge. No insignia and no 43's? Yeah right. Martin Martin, I will definately look into that. This is exactly why I posted this impression up here, to get some feedback and see if anyone had any information (such as this), that I was not aware of. This is not a "regular" impression of mine, and I definately have a lot to learn in its regard. -Shawn
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Post by williegford on Mar 9, 2011 9:51:01 GMT -5
Looking good Shawn. Yeah, the three things we are definite of that we haven't seen are: (1) Combat Boots (2) M-1928 Haversacks (3) M-1943 Jackets Things we do see: (1) M-1941 Jackets (2) A mixture of Shoe pacs and Service shoes w/ leggings (3) Bed Rolls (4) Little use of insignia. Regards, FRISCAN So you are saying that the standard pack issued to enlisted men in the infantry during WWII, the M1928 haversack, was not issued to guys in the 8th ID? What pack are you suggesting they were issued pray tell? Bill
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Post by Boogiewoogie on Mar 9, 2011 10:15:16 GMT -5
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Post by sturgill on Mar 9, 2011 15:26:43 GMT -5
Martin, Thank you very much for that! Definately a mix of 43s thrown in there. Lots of interesting things, actually--tons of bedrolls, a mix of overshoes and shoepacs, a fair number of "tanker" jackets, and I even believe I saw at least one M43 pack. Thanks again. -Shawn PS~ What's the date on the photo?
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Post by 24thForward on Mar 9, 2011 16:01:36 GMT -5
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Post by daveneary on Mar 9, 2011 17:13:34 GMT -5
How 'bout overcoats? It appears that close to 1/3 of the troops shown in Martin's photos are wearing overcoats. I'd be willing to bet quite a few of those troops not wearing their overcoats have used the overcoat to form their "bedrolls".
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Post by TC1c Dunigan on Mar 9, 2011 20:51:05 GMT -5
Martin, thanks these are great. We've had a ton of trouble finding good quality photos of the 8th ID just in general. Is this the 121st IR? or just in general the 8th ID? We see those items with other units(13th and 28th IR's) but, not with the 121st IR in large numbers. Hence, is why we have shied away from them. I see insignia but, VERY little overall. The overcoats are new though. We haven't seen them in use. Bill, We all know the soldier was issued a pack but, as far as the 28' packs went in the photos we had access too, showed them not using them in the field. Bed rolls were the most common. Regards, FRISCAN
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Post by 24thForward on Mar 9, 2011 21:23:55 GMT -5
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Post by Boogiewoogie on Mar 9, 2011 22:43:58 GMT -5
I have no idea what exact unit of the 8th that is. I just thought it was a really cool photo, as it showed a very large selection of soldiers.
Martin
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Post by TC1c Dunigan on Mar 9, 2011 22:58:57 GMT -5
I have no idea what exact unit of the 8th that is. I just thought it was a really cool photo, as it showed a very large selection of soldiers. Martin Definitely a cool pic... thanks for posting it up Martin! Regards, FRISCAN
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Thumper
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Post by Thumper on Mar 9, 2011 23:22:34 GMT -5
I am having a hard time rationalizing where the 13th and 28th Infantry Regiments might have M43 field jackets and the 121st would not. The 8th Quartermaster Company would handle the QMC issue for the entire division, and if there were M43 field jackets within the division at the time, then in my opinion there exists a strong possibility of issue of the garment across the entire division. Maybe certain regiments were issued the M43 en masse at different times, but if other regiments in the division had the M43, then it WAS present within the division and there should have been some stock on hand with the division quartermaster for issue, even if only replacement issue at a minimum. I do not think it is entirely logical to rule out an entire regiment as not having them.
Granted, by nature I prefer empirical research and that is always the preferred method. I do not like speculating, but I am trying to offer a reasonable possibility. I gladly defer to more concrete evidence, as it emerges.
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4thID8thRegtIR
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Post by 4thID8thRegtIR on Mar 9, 2011 23:25:51 GMT -5
You may also want to contact these guys www.shadows8thinfww2.org/I've worked with them and they have done a lot of research on their impression and could possibly save you allot of headaches. Roger
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Post by williegford on Mar 10, 2011 11:49:07 GMT -5
Bill, We all know the soldier was issued a pack but, as far as the 28' packs went in the photos we had access too, showed them not using them in the field. Bed rolls were the most common. Regards, FRISCAN The only thing I don't get Friscan is why it was ok to use supposition alone when you were defending your use of a beak point bayonet in your 8th ID impression but when it comes to an item we know beyond a shadow of a doubt was issued to these soldiers, you won't use it unless you see a photograph? Especially when you state you're having a hard time finding quality 8th ID photos in general not to mention 121 IR specific. I really do like the use of a bedroll like you and shawn are employing. But I simply cannot agree with your assertion that no soldiers in the 121 IR used their '28 pack. Bill
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